WHERE DID THE FUN GO?
After losing to 1-man DOOM in the Finals of this most recent BLWB; Wiffman, Gongman, Boomer and Leahy were found in the parking lot taking out their frustration on the poor 2nd place trophy. It wasn’t that the trophy was undesirable, it’s what it represented….not quite good enough. So instead of going on the mantle, it became a pinata, absorbing blow after blow from the bats of the guys who finsihed second.
Has this sport become too competitve? Is winning all that matters? Where did the fun go? Seems like for most teams, fun takes a back seat to success. In a growing format like BLWB, we have to guard against the spirit of the sport being compramised. New teams, average teams, family teams, all play initially for the love of the game. They keep playing, b/c of how much fun they’re having. These teams will eventually make up the majority of BLWB if it’s to succeed.
So what do we do to maximize FUN? For me, it’s finiding a way to increase balance within the format. This weekend there were way too many 1-0 games. If the bat must be yellow ONLY, then the options become: lower the speed limit more or make the ball unscuffed.
1. An unscuffed ball moves less and will make pitchers work harder to get batters out. (due to the unlimited fouls rule) Advantage: Hitter
2. Having scuffed balls with a lower speed limit of 35mph, allows pitchers more movement, and gives yellow weilding batters a better chance of putting the ball in play. Advantage: Both (good balance)
Remember, this is all about the big picture. How do we get WIFFLE recognized Nationally? BLWB is the front runner in making this a reality. To pull it off two things need to happen. It needs to multiply in size and it needs to be marketable.
1. To grow, you must ensure every team equal opportunity to win, b/c winning does matter and to those whom it doesn’t, you still have to make it fun for them so they want to come back. Getting shut out every game won’t inspire that.
2. To be more marketable, the fans need to enjoy what they’re viewing. It needs to be exciting. The pitching needs to be crafty, not over powering. The hitting needs to be frequent, not occasional. And the defense needs to play a significant role, and that only happens when the ball is put in play.
To give all three elements their fair shake a rule change needs to be made. Should it be changing to unscuffed balls, or should the speed limit be reduced to 35mph? I think my opinion is obvious, but I look forward to yours.
I’ve never agreed with you more. And as much as I hate pitching to metal bats, I feel like taking them out could hurt the formats marketability…I can see you’re searching for ways around that now, but myself and fellow gunner teammates were talking at the tournament Saturday…what if a shorter metal bat was made, the same length as a yellow wiffle bat? Could increase offense/level off pitching and hitting w/ scuffed balls, but not make it ridiculous (i.e. eliminating pitching to the outside corner and pop up homers off the end of the bat from current jmx and black magics) Furthermore, I think tournaments in facilities like Bedford are best with just yellows because of how short the fields are. In response to what you were saying however, I think if the speed limit were 35 all we’d get is even more controversy over how fast someone is throwing. What about the idea of “semi scuffed” like HRL does? I know that is so vague and could cause even more controversy during tournaments, but it has seemed to actually work very well for that format so far. The other thing I think is extending the games to 6 innings? It seemed like we, along w/ everyone in our division, found ourselves in like the last inning of a 0-0 or 1-0 duel after about 12 minutes of playing on saturday…kinda creeps up on you in a pitcher’s duel like that.
Comment by McHugh — May 27, 2008 @ 10:24 am
Although we have been absent so far in this format, I still will throw in my two-cents. From the sound of it, I think that you are on the mark with that Trotta. I think that lowering the speed limit would be the ideal solution as well. By having the speed limit at 40+ I believe that weaker more “non-competitive” teams will be forced out to other slow pitch formats. These teams need to be there around your base of competitive teams to make this thing really take off. Also, as Trotta mentioned if this is to be marketable, every aspect of the game needs to be highlighted.
Any word on someones suggestion to get the Wiffle company to produce a tournament quality bat. I’d pay $10 for a new version of an old school bat in a second.
Comment by Jon - Lawn Boys — May 27, 2008 @ 10:39 am
lets not look to far past the ultimate prize on that particular day… winner take all, as our team set out for first place or bust, second place was not an option so we took out our frustrations on said trophy, sure it looks nice on the mantle, but do the patriots reallly care about being afc champs and not winning the superbowl? any other time 2nd place would of been just fine, descent money and a great run. we would have celebrated. just not this day… 2nd place was first loser
Comment by leahy — May 27, 2008 @ 4:59 pm
Matt- the length of the aluminum bat has nothing to do with why BLWB did away with them. WIFFLE has discussed the possibility of coming up with a tournament style yellow for BLWB, but that has not been confirmed as happening. Keep your fingers crossed or feel free to write:
The Wiffle Ball Inc.
275 Bridgeport Avenue, P.O. Box 193
Shelton, CT 06484
As for lightly scuffed vs. scuffed, every scuffed ball is unique and everyone has their own way of doing it. Pin pointing what’s TOO scuffed, would bring unneeded scrutiny on the Organizers to make a consistent decision.
As for the speed limit…I’m visited currently by the legendary Kevin Ostertog. He wanted to see the Dodgers score. As of the 4th inning, the game is tied 0-0. How exciting! After checking the score we found no reason to continue watching.
Throwing a ball 40+ mph with added movement thanks to scuffing, makes hitting it with a thin 33″ yellow bat, near impossible. Some of us who are damn good at what we do, may still succeed from time to time, but the whole of BLWB will suffer to generate offense.
To combat this we lower the speed limit to something more managable. It will still require close monitoring, but it will make it easier to hit. When hitting becomes easier, scores will increase, the defense will get more opportunities, and the game will become more enjoyable to watch and play.
Comment by Adam Trotta — May 27, 2008 @ 8:27 pm
1.
I have to disagree with everyone and say you guys are missing the point. I do not think the speed limit or bat size needs to be changed because hitting a ball whether it be baseball or wiffleball is one of the most challenging things to do in sports, especially when there is a good pitcher on the hill.
I am from the Bean Town Boys in my second year playing, where i started in NEWA last year with my buddy. We did well with the format played tough in the Worcester playoffs losing to the eventual winners Lawn Boys 3-1 in the quarter finals. Thats besides the point, me and my buddy enjoy it greatly even when we don’t have the best day and keep improving as we rank 9th this year in NEWA but we always mention how we are the only teenagers around. I most recently brought a couple friends to play as my teammate couldn’t play in the BLWB tourney in Bedford and we went 1-2 losing to a couple tough teams (Ego squad 4-2, and 1 Man doom 5-3) and we did not make the playoffs. However my friends enjoyed the competition even without having success and are looking to improve and join more and more tournaments. I feel the biggest issue is cost. 125 dollars to play wiffle ball is steep especially to high school/college kids and it doesn’t make sense to many of them to pay 40 dollars a piece on a 3 person team to go 0-3 in a tournament. Although Bean Town has not made money in its first year we will keep joining because the competition is exciting and it is a great time. The only way to do as you say and attract more youth who still have the time to play everyday and improve from an 0-3 record unlike 30 year olds who hopefully work full time is to lower the cost. All this talk of lowering speed limits and bats is ridiculous, baseball is centered pitching and defense, sure the home runs are great but good pitching is what baseball is all about. So, the only way to continuously get these mediocre teams to keep coming back, or attract new youth is to have a more reasonable cost, not to change the rules making it easier to hit. I personally know in Natick Mass where i hail, I could have a football/baseball field for the weekend without cost so I do not believe the excuse that the cost is so great to cover the field expenses either. Anyway, although many will argue over not being able to hit a 40mph pitch, I say lower the cost and you will see the youth/bad teams continuing to keep coming back for more
Comment by BTB242 — May 27, 2008 @ 9:28 pm
Comment by BTB242 — May 27, 2008 @ 10:09 pm
Something I thought of that might help increase offense a little bit is to eliminate the frozen batter rule. Never really understood the point of the rule other than it might speed games up a little bit. I mean our games on Saturday averaged 12 minutes. I just think that rule should be changed or eliminated. Make it a swing and a miss and you are out. The frozen batter rule I find makes you swing at alot of bad pitches just to “protect” yourself from striking out. At least if you swing and miss it is on the batter & it forces the pitcher to utilize more strategy other than throwing a 45 MPH drop at your eyes and it clipping the top of the zone for an automatic out. In my eyes the pitcher has the advantage in the BLWB format. I know people will make the arguement that the batter has unlimited fouls but when pitchers are pushing the speed limit it is hard to foul off something you can’t touch in the first place. And trying to foul it off with a thin yellow bat makes it even tougher. Just my two cents
Comment by Gerry — May 27, 2008 @ 10:56 pm
Thanks for the post, BTB. Glad to see you on your way to becoming a wiffle freak.
A couple of things from your post I don’t agree with:
First off, you mention the NEWA tournament and how much you liked it. NEWA has a 38MPH limit. BLWB has been doing 40, and, having just dropped down from 45, lots of teams felt that they were seeing 40+. So a move to 35 would actually be much closer to what you saw at the NEWA.
And far as cost goes, all you have to do is sign up in advance and it is only $99. Teams with 4 players get hours of entertainment, a chance to win money, snacks, drinks and even swimsuit calendars for $25. That’s a pretty good deal. Moreover, with the current field sizes, BLWB isn’t making much money, and, in fact, they have taken losses on tournaments. I just don’t see lowering the cost as a realistic option. Hidden costs like insurance are costly, and the payout % with BLWB is by far the best around. There is no better value out there.
As far as good baseball being about good pitching and defense, I also disagree. BAseball is about pitching, hitting and defense, and the idea is trying to get a good balance of the three. Also, the higher the pitch speed (especially considering scuffed balls, which are illegal in NEWA, and yellow bats) the less defense plays a part, because a lower percentage of balls are put in play. Believe me when I tell you that a talented pitcher can be pretty tough to hit, even at 35 MPH. If anything, dropping the limit would put even more of a premium on quality pitching.
And I don’t think that many of the posters are arguing that they can’t hit at 40MPH. Remember, most of these guys here are stars that have competed at the Fast Plastic National Finals and the GSWL, where pitch speeds of 70+ MPH are found (and hit). The issue isn’t whether the good teams can hit at 40 MPH. Believe me that these guys can and do. The issue is what produces the best game balance, and, ultimately the most marketable product.
There are numerous places to play high-level fast pitch wiffleball, and I look forward to doing so myself this summer. However, these formats will always be limited by the fact that they only really attract truly hard-core players. WE can produce more of these players by having a medium pitch circuit where some new guy isn’t given a tiny yellow bat and told to hit Niffman’s 45 MPH scuffed ball drop right out of the box. And it isn’t as if the competitive nature of the game is ruined. All teams will be playing by the same rules, so pitchers had better be crafty and batters had better be ready to hit.
If guys from teams like Lawn Boys and Doom (both incredible slow and fast pitch teams) advocate it, it can’t be because they can’t hit at 40MPH. Rather, it is because years of experience have given them the idea that this might be the best way to grow the game.
But we are hoping that a large part of the community chimes in. It could be that you are the majority opinion.
Thanks for the post.
Comment by Animal — May 27, 2008 @ 11:16 pm
I agree with the 1 swing and miss is an out rule because at 35-40MPH I think there is actually a lot of hitting especially when you can take a free hack to stay alive. When the speed of the pitching is that low you should make your swings count.
Beantown Boys actually made the playoffs in Bedford you guys left right after losing to us. You were probably one of the better pitchers there you would have made a good playoff run. Im right over in Framingham so if you Beantown Boys want an Ego Squad rematch anytime you let me know!
Comment by Tyler Gagen — May 28, 2008 @ 12:16 am
I think the rules are fine as is. 6 innings are a pretty good idea, games did go by pretty quick. I also agree with BTB, although there a prolly more teens than he realizes i know most of my friends are skepticle of playing because they dont wanna just waste money. Maybe a rookie entry fee if all the players are new to wiffs, their first tourney can be 50-60 bucks or somethin, something to just lure them in, so if you draw 3 new teams because of the rules, if one shows up again u already made up the money you lost. The problem with the early signup thing is that alot of HS kids dont have credit cards and such, i know i didnt. And im def with Jon on having them make better bats, if theyre gonna be part of BLWB then it needs to be done, especially as the year goes on and we move outdoors when its 80 out and the teams without old bats break theirs in the first inning cuz the bats are junk. Sorry for being all over the place too, i read posts then responded, then read another and so on.
Comment by mikeph — May 28, 2008 @ 5:47 pm
Like i said i still dont think offense is a problem. I assume all these changes to make the game more offensive are to get people to watch or something along those lines. People are amazed by what pitchers can do with a ball, thats what they wanna see, not some kids throwing rinky dink sliders that are getting mashed. When I show my friends the goldenstick vids they are all amazed by the pitching and the hitting gets overlooked most of the time. All the people your are trying to attract are used to seeing a wiffleball get hit, theyre not used to seeing a wiffman drop or something along those lines. I had more 8-10 pitch at bats against me saturday than ive ever seen before, kids fouling balls off. The only change id consider making is widening the fields a bit, would increase the action and give the fielders a purpose for actually being out there.
Comment by mikeph — May 28, 2008 @ 7:56 pm
Gentlemen, I don’t want this blog to become about justifing Nick and Jared’s expenses as Organizers, so just trust me when i say they have lost money thus far, not made it. $100 entry is pretty standard for any professional wiffleball tournament and has been since 1993.
As for the swing and a miss debate vs. the 1 and done rule: I think S&M hurts hitting. We’re talking about a scuffed ball with sick movement. Pitching speeds that have pushed the limit, and now only official yellow WIFFLE bats will be allowed making contact that much harder to achieve. If the AB can be over on pitch #1 due to a S&M, then that doesn’t help generate offense. It promotes taking pitches b/c people are afraid to swing. That promotes walks, which promotes cheap wins and less entertaining games.
Comment by Adam Trotta — May 28, 2008 @ 10:16 pm
Make the speed limit 15 mph (advantage batter) and make the strike zone 62″long x 82″ high and 2″ off the grond (advantage pitcher)…haha jk. Seriously though, I totally agree with Gerry and the S&M rule. I know some people say the 1 and done causes more offense because there are more swings, but most of them are not quality swings, they are protective swings. I mean I would rather take 30 quality swings at a tournament then 140 crappy ones. Chances are if im swinging at a pitch that is borderline (especially with the yellow bats)it is either going to be a lazy out or it is going to be fouled off because of the narrow field. I personally like to look at more pitches and be patient and wait for “the right” pitch to get a hold of; also why unlimited fouls is a great idea…
The new teams are going to find it challenging enough keeping up with the great pitchers. I know the goal is to make it entertaining but, assuming the team doesn’t fare well (highly probable being their first tourney), how entertaining can it be for a team to show up and play 3 games less than 15 min. a piece then go home? I firmly believe the games are a lot quicker using the one and done method.
I don’t think winning a game by walking is a cheap win…it’s part of the game, and yes it absolutely sucks when it happens against you, but no team is gaining an edge; both teams have to pitch. Maybe if walks do become an issue then up the amount of balls for a walk to 5.
I don’t want to make it sound like I’m bitchin…just throwin in my four-cents.
Also, great idea on the bats!!!
Comment by Kyle- Yo Ho — May 29, 2008 @ 12:43 am
In my experience, there are more swings and misses, than there are pitches hitting the zone without people swinging. In an unlimited foul format people should be swinging the bat, not putting it on their shoulder until “the right” pitch comes along.
Comment by Adam Trotta — May 29, 2008 @ 10:20 am
I agree, that’s why I was with Trotta on the 35MPH limit, but I must say the idea certainly hasn’t been warmly recieved by everyone. Of course, the current wifflers aren’t who we are trying to help, so I am not that surprised, but I am still a bit surprised that people don’t see the potential with the idea. No worries for me either way. We are ready to go no matter what the rules. And we play NEWA sometimes, and there you have to hit 55MPH pitches with no fouls, so…
Why every format needs to have this automatic K rule at all is beyond me. How dumb would baseball be if Manny couldn’t take a strike, or if Papi swings and misses a 2-0 pitch and has to head back to the dugout. In my opinion, it is contrived and serves no purpose other than to makes the game even less like baseball and more like a novelty act. If 2 stikes is a K, the batter should get 2 strikes. Special bonuses need not be awarded to one sort of strike over another in a completely arbitrary way. I have thought that since day 1, and after 4 years, I still think that.
Comment by Animal — May 29, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
I agree with you Dave. I think there shouldn’t be any rule where a swing and a miss is an out or caught looking is an out. But since the rule is there I say change it to swing and a miss so there is an equal balance or get rid of it altogether. Me being primarily a hitter I feel like when I step up to the plate I have to swing at junk because a pitcher has some ridiculous movement on a pitch that no one in there right mind can either hit or keep fair. That automatically puts you down in the count and then you are forced to swing at more junk. The at bats just seem so uneven. I watched a majority of the games last Saturday and even in the semifinals and finals I saw so many bad swings from good hitters.
Comment by Gerry — May 29, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
I disagree, for me personally the “one and done” rule makes me a more aggressive and better hitter. I do find it strange though, that in tournaments with a swing and a miss rule that one can foul out. And for the one and done rule there is usually unlimited fouls (which I love).
Comment by Jon - Lawn Boys — May 29, 2008 @ 7:22 pm
My Ideal Tournament Format….
- 5 Balls
- 2 Strikes
- No swing and miss or one and done rule
- 35+ MPH
- Plastic Bats
- Unlimited Fouls
I realize my format is going to greatly increase the length of games and of the tournament but in my mind I don’t care if the tournament ends at 4 PM or 7PM.
Comment by merrifield21 — May 30, 2008 @ 11:55 am
I agree, swing and miss makes you more of a passive and patient hitter, wait for one you can drive. one and done you have to swing at whats close.
Comment by mikeph — May 30, 2008 @ 12:03 pm